A Rose by any other name...
Apr. 9th, 2007 11:05 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
grimorieJust as I expected the Rose reference is causing quite a bit of debate. I could see how Classic Who fans would be so huffy about it and might even take offense.
My take of this is quite simple when Cassandra, er, Christina Cole named Ten's grief as Rose its not because it's larger than his grief over Gallifrey. It's just for now, its the most recent one he's received in a long time. Losing Gallifrey is still painful, still lonely and still as angst inducing as ever but that's a burden he's been carrying around for years now. It's almost like an old friend to him. It's familiar and its his.
Losing Rose on the other hand is new. Coming after all the expected promises of forever its the newest thing and he's trying to handle it the same way as he handled losing all his companions, losing his planet by not mentioning it at all but of course even he changes. He can't be the same person he was, not even Dream could be so unchanging.
I don't think Rose is the most special of the special companions, they're all special in their own way but Rose was the first person Nine interacted with who helped him out of his grief and I think , in a way, Martha will be the same way for Ten. But I think I'm tired of actors always being paired together just because.
Also, the scene in the bed, I didn't think it takes it to mean that Rose is better than Martha or that we should read it that way. It just means in the quiet moments he lets his grief go and we're precisely there rooting for Martha. On the other hand I wish RTD would stop projecting his relationship issues on his characters. I think its pretty clear that's how he's playing it based on his interviews in Confidential.
I'd really love for Martha to get over Ten (because he does have enough of an ego, thank you very much) and just view him as an eccentric, strange man who is occasionally brilliant but needs rescuing from time-to-time.
There's been talk about Rose returning in some circles and I'm two minds off it, I think its better if Rose didn't return yet (if ever) and if she did I'd much love it if she had the chance with Rose Tyler: Earth Defense. I've seen the Invasion of Bane and it was lovely. I really want to see Rose doing precisely that!
She'd be that eccentric member of the Torchwood team and as someone commented in New Ground, the loose cannon. Rose would give Ianto so many headaches I sort of imagine their working relationship reminiscent of Mulder and Skinner. Mulder goes off in his wild crazy theory, Skinner tries to make of his crazy while Scully is attempting to keep a straight face and back Mulder up. I'm still not sure who Scully is to Rose's Mulder.
By no means would Rose be a genius and super, she just has the right instincts for the job and some experience in handling weird things. She'd get a reputation as a sort of nut because of all the things she proposes and does, which is why it's good for her to have a team. In fact, I think she'll learn how to work in a team not only just order about but really trusting other people. Not that she has a problem with trusting people its just that she's used to trusting only one man and he's not there, she has to learn to shift her priorities.
I already have some vague outlines on a possible series and its really not going to be shippy in anyway. It's going to be about Rose, about Mickey, about Jake, about Jackie and Pete and the new Earth. I guess, its my way of trying to see if I could write a series and a story that had nothing to do with romantic love. Pete's World has such a broad canvass we can all paint in with the airships and the steampunk or cyberpunk science RTD's left us. I've always wanted to write a gen scifi series with a woman as the lead. I think Rose and Co. would be the perfect people for me to experiment on. Plus, I've always been intrigued with steampunk. I might incorporate some elements from both Doctor Who S3 and Torchwood.
The team would go through some changes, some wild adventures and maybe, just maybe a caper story. Rose will find herself facing some aspects of herself she didn't know she had both dark and light. Even though she didn't remember it Rose did commit genocide and its something even if the people she killed are Daleks it's still genocide. She's going to make mistakes and people will constantly question her, hence Mickey and Jake.
Mickey already went through his crucible, he's changed the most and must have done some dark things during the war, as Jake has and he's made his peace with his demons and his relationship with Rose. Mostly, I think he'd be the voice of reason in the group. The one trying to keep Rose and Jake from going overboard and pulling them back. Not an easy task, if he's asked. And, he's still not perfect. He'll still have those moments when he's hardlined about something and won't bend easy to a new perspective so easily, especially if it goes against something he believes in. From the start we've seen that he has a very black and white view of things but gradually he's mellowed. I think that'd still come out sooner or later if RTD's series pushed through.
Jake, on the other hand, is a bit like Rose in a way but he's by no means a boy version of Rose. For one, he thinks Rose is an absolute nut -- which, in a way, endears her to him but still he thinks she's a nut. He loves action even more than Mickey and even though Mickey's the combat leader, he's the one they turn to in the event of kicking ass. And, he absolutely loves his van. It's his version of a TARDIS. The van saw through the end of the war and he thinks its just the best piece of machinery because of that. He was ambivalent about Rose in the beginning especially with the way Rose treated Mickey way back when, so he was keeping his distance. But since Mickey still drags Rose everywhere Jake had no choice but to accept her and since the Hinds thing he's thinking there must be something with Rose after all but he'd rather be kicked in the head than tell her. So, now, his mission in life is to annoy, tease and generally be a pain in every sense. It's good, she needs that sometimes.
There'd be two other members who'll join the team but I don't know how they'll fit in with the dynamic. I know how they'll get there of course, I just don't know how they'd interact with such strong personalities as these three.
I think I might be taking some elements from the Thursday Next novels (because they're eerily similar in some ways) and I'll be borrowing some elements from![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
cryptile's Here There Be, specifically her world's version of Torchwood. In fact, Pete's World!Torchwood isn't as spit shiny as Canary Wharf Torchwood but the people there would be more competent than Cardiff Torchwood. They'll be somewhere in between, a struggling semi-private government agency caught after a particularly nasty war and suffering an aftermath of a brutal attack.
After three years of the war, Pete's World is still rebuilding. Population's down to a very scary degree and Britain remains to be, as it was before the Cyber War, a police state only now there's been some rumble about change. President Harriet Jones is trying to ride it out, keep her country together, also, people have become considerably paranoid about technology. A shame since technologically speaking Pete's World (hence known as PW) is shown to be far more technologically advanced than Rose's original Earth.
It's just as Ten predicted in Tooth & Claw -- the Victorian age accelerated.
Also, there's a movement against company monopolies and big industry companies in general, which means in public there will be a lot of people who hate Pete. Especially since they know nothing about Pete's involvement in the Cyber War or Torchwood.
Rose would have to cope with that, not only will she have to contend with the public's curiousity (certainly be an impediment when she'll go undercover) but now she has to contend with the fact that a lot of people hate her family and actively wishing harm to them.
It's something Pete, of course, will try to keep from Jackie. In some ways he's still making the mistake of confusing his first wife with his second wife. It's something both Jackie and Pete has to learn that they are not the same people. Rose might have gotten a handle of this one better. She's had time to process it from Pete running away from her at the end of RoTC.
I also think, despite Pete rescuing her he still has a hard time thinking Rose as his daughter. He feels a bond with her but she isn't his. It's a human way to think, really. Eventually though, he would come to accept Rose but not yet. It'll take time to lay that bridge and, in a way, Rose has to earn it. As Pete has to earn being called 'dad' too.
Rose would be pretty open about her 'father issues' now that she has time to think on it.
By the way, I'll just reiterate that I had the character called Jones way before I learned about Martha or Ianto but I decided to move him out of New Ground.
How is Torchwood Cardiff in PW? Well, I think that it's running smoothly and that Suzie Costello would be running Cardiff if Jack isn't there. Also without the tempting influence of the resurrection glove (or Phoenix glove in PW) she'd be a very competent leader and running a far tighter ship than Jack ever would. Owen and Tosh would still be there, of course. And just like everyone in PW is far more harder than their regular counterparts because they've all been soldiers of the war.
In fact, a great part of the surviving population has, in one point or other, fought in the resistance. It's why they're all none too impressed with Rose and another part of Rose earning her wings in Torchwood. They've all fought, what makes you so different, eh?
I'm watching a lot of shows now from Ultraviolet (the series), X-files, Stargate , NCIS, Bones and even Spooks. I sort of want to make this still unnamed series into a sort of procedural/sci-fi/team like/espionage thing. There would be conspiracies and mysteries and time anomalies and rogue agents.
Of course, I might just be biting more than I can chew. I truly hope something would come out of this.
All in all ending this of course with me shamelessly reccing: New Ground. A seven part gen adventure story with Rose, Mickey and Jake in Pete's World.
My take of this is quite simple when Cassandra, er, Christina Cole named Ten's grief as Rose its not because it's larger than his grief over Gallifrey. It's just for now, its the most recent one he's received in a long time. Losing Gallifrey is still painful, still lonely and still as angst inducing as ever but that's a burden he's been carrying around for years now. It's almost like an old friend to him. It's familiar and its his.
Losing Rose on the other hand is new. Coming after all the expected promises of forever its the newest thing and he's trying to handle it the same way as he handled losing all his companions, losing his planet by not mentioning it at all but of course even he changes. He can't be the same person he was, not even Dream could be so unchanging.
I don't think Rose is the most special of the special companions, they're all special in their own way but Rose was the first person Nine interacted with who helped him out of his grief and I think , in a way, Martha will be the same way for Ten. But I think I'm tired of actors always being paired together just because.
Also, the scene in the bed, I didn't think it takes it to mean that Rose is better than Martha or that we should read it that way. It just means in the quiet moments he lets his grief go and we're precisely there rooting for Martha. On the other hand I wish RTD would stop projecting his relationship issues on his characters. I think its pretty clear that's how he's playing it based on his interviews in Confidential.
I'd really love for Martha to get over Ten (because he does have enough of an ego, thank you very much) and just view him as an eccentric, strange man who is occasionally brilliant but needs rescuing from time-to-time.
There's been talk about Rose returning in some circles and I'm two minds off it, I think its better if Rose didn't return yet (if ever) and if she did I'd much love it if she had the chance with Rose Tyler: Earth Defense. I've seen the Invasion of Bane and it was lovely. I really want to see Rose doing precisely that!
She'd be that eccentric member of the Torchwood team and as someone commented in New Ground, the loose cannon. Rose would give Ianto so many headaches I sort of imagine their working relationship reminiscent of Mulder and Skinner. Mulder goes off in his wild crazy theory, Skinner tries to make of his crazy while Scully is attempting to keep a straight face and back Mulder up. I'm still not sure who Scully is to Rose's Mulder.
By no means would Rose be a genius and super, she just has the right instincts for the job and some experience in handling weird things. She'd get a reputation as a sort of nut because of all the things she proposes and does, which is why it's good for her to have a team. In fact, I think she'll learn how to work in a team not only just order about but really trusting other people. Not that she has a problem with trusting people its just that she's used to trusting only one man and he's not there, she has to learn to shift her priorities.
I already have some vague outlines on a possible series and its really not going to be shippy in anyway. It's going to be about Rose, about Mickey, about Jake, about Jackie and Pete and the new Earth. I guess, its my way of trying to see if I could write a series and a story that had nothing to do with romantic love. Pete's World has such a broad canvass we can all paint in with the airships and the steampunk or cyberpunk science RTD's left us. I've always wanted to write a gen scifi series with a woman as the lead. I think Rose and Co. would be the perfect people for me to experiment on. Plus, I've always been intrigued with steampunk. I might incorporate some elements from both Doctor Who S3 and Torchwood.
The team would go through some changes, some wild adventures and maybe, just maybe a caper story. Rose will find herself facing some aspects of herself she didn't know she had both dark and light. Even though she didn't remember it Rose did commit genocide and its something even if the people she killed are Daleks it's still genocide. She's going to make mistakes and people will constantly question her, hence Mickey and Jake.
Mickey already went through his crucible, he's changed the most and must have done some dark things during the war, as Jake has and he's made his peace with his demons and his relationship with Rose. Mostly, I think he'd be the voice of reason in the group. The one trying to keep Rose and Jake from going overboard and pulling them back. Not an easy task, if he's asked. And, he's still not perfect. He'll still have those moments when he's hardlined about something and won't bend easy to a new perspective so easily, especially if it goes against something he believes in. From the start we've seen that he has a very black and white view of things but gradually he's mellowed. I think that'd still come out sooner or later if RTD's series pushed through.
Jake, on the other hand, is a bit like Rose in a way but he's by no means a boy version of Rose. For one, he thinks Rose is an absolute nut -- which, in a way, endears her to him but still he thinks she's a nut. He loves action even more than Mickey and even though Mickey's the combat leader, he's the one they turn to in the event of kicking ass. And, he absolutely loves his van. It's his version of a TARDIS. The van saw through the end of the war and he thinks its just the best piece of machinery because of that. He was ambivalent about Rose in the beginning especially with the way Rose treated Mickey way back when, so he was keeping his distance. But since Mickey still drags Rose everywhere Jake had no choice but to accept her and since the Hinds thing he's thinking there must be something with Rose after all but he'd rather be kicked in the head than tell her. So, now, his mission in life is to annoy, tease and generally be a pain in every sense. It's good, she needs that sometimes.
There'd be two other members who'll join the team but I don't know how they'll fit in with the dynamic. I know how they'll get there of course, I just don't know how they'd interact with such strong personalities as these three.
I think I might be taking some elements from the Thursday Next novels (because they're eerily similar in some ways) and I'll be borrowing some elements from
cryptile's Here There Be, specifically her world's version of Torchwood. In fact, Pete's World!Torchwood isn't as spit shiny as Canary Wharf Torchwood but the people there would be more competent than Cardiff Torchwood. They'll be somewhere in between, a struggling semi-private government agency caught after a particularly nasty war and suffering an aftermath of a brutal attack. After three years of the war, Pete's World is still rebuilding. Population's down to a very scary degree and Britain remains to be, as it was before the Cyber War, a police state only now there's been some rumble about change. President Harriet Jones is trying to ride it out, keep her country together, also, people have become considerably paranoid about technology. A shame since technologically speaking Pete's World (hence known as PW) is shown to be far more technologically advanced than Rose's original Earth.
It's just as Ten predicted in Tooth & Claw -- the Victorian age accelerated.
Also, there's a movement against company monopolies and big industry companies in general, which means in public there will be a lot of people who hate Pete. Especially since they know nothing about Pete's involvement in the Cyber War or Torchwood.
Rose would have to cope with that, not only will she have to contend with the public's curiousity (certainly be an impediment when she'll go undercover) but now she has to contend with the fact that a lot of people hate her family and actively wishing harm to them.
It's something Pete, of course, will try to keep from Jackie. In some ways he's still making the mistake of confusing his first wife with his second wife. It's something both Jackie and Pete has to learn that they are not the same people. Rose might have gotten a handle of this one better. She's had time to process it from Pete running away from her at the end of RoTC.
I also think, despite Pete rescuing her he still has a hard time thinking Rose as his daughter. He feels a bond with her but she isn't his. It's a human way to think, really. Eventually though, he would come to accept Rose but not yet. It'll take time to lay that bridge and, in a way, Rose has to earn it. As Pete has to earn being called 'dad' too.
Rose would be pretty open about her 'father issues' now that she has time to think on it.
By the way, I'll just reiterate that I had the character called Jones way before I learned about Martha or Ianto but I decided to move him out of New Ground.
How is Torchwood Cardiff in PW? Well, I think that it's running smoothly and that Suzie Costello would be running Cardiff if Jack isn't there. Also without the tempting influence of the resurrection glove (or Phoenix glove in PW) she'd be a very competent leader and running a far tighter ship than Jack ever would. Owen and Tosh would still be there, of course. And just like everyone in PW is far more harder than their regular counterparts because they've all been soldiers of the war.
In fact, a great part of the surviving population has, in one point or other, fought in the resistance. It's why they're all none too impressed with Rose and another part of Rose earning her wings in Torchwood. They've all fought, what makes you so different, eh?
I'm watching a lot of shows now from Ultraviolet (the series), X-files, Stargate , NCIS, Bones and even Spooks. I sort of want to make this still unnamed series into a sort of procedural/sci-fi/team like/espionage thing. There would be conspiracies and mysteries and time anomalies and rogue agents.
Of course, I might just be biting more than I can chew. I truly hope something would come out of this.
All in all ending this of course with me shamelessly reccing: New Ground. A seven part gen adventure story with Rose, Mickey and Jake in Pete's World.
